Tyler Axness 00:00

It's the Law Talk, first Wednesday of the month here on Afternoon's Live. That means Bruce Ringstrom Jr. in studio. Dane DeKrey in studio. Ringstrom DeKrey Law, they are criminal defense attorneys and they're friends of the show and they take all your questions at 35270.

Tyler Axness 00:16

Bruce Ringstrom Jr., welcome back. Tyler, it's good to be here. Good to have you, Dane. I want to say the same and I will. Good to have you back.

Dane DeKrey 00:22

Thank you, that's nice of you.

Tyler Axness 00:23

That's the nicest I'm gonna be for the whole hour.

Tyler Axness 00:26

It's all downhill from here, brother. Let's get this out of the way. There's been a high profile situation in Minnesota and it involves a Democratic state senator allegedly breaking into her stepmother's home for what I would say are family conflicts and it has been now publicly stated that she has turned to your law firm for some representation.

Tyler Axness 00:48

Bruce Ringstrom Jr., I don't know what I can and cannot ask on this situation but a lot of people are talking about it and I think that lends itself to my first question is, when you have a high profile candidate like this that is a politician that's been talked about all over the news, how does that provide a barrier for you to do your job?

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 01:07

Well to a certain extent it does. Anytime a high profile client is based with a criminal case, the media is as interested in their celebrity, their professional obligations as they are with the criminal case. This one is getting particularly complicated because of course there's a lot of things going on in the legislature right now. Dane and I are expressly focused on defending this person in court in Becker County. We are only reluctantly involved to the extent that we absolutely have to be in the political dimension. We don't want to be involved in that in any capacity, but it is our job to protect her and we will do just that.

Tyler Axness 01:51

The politics acts as a whole other level here because I've been guilty. I mean, we talked about it, like you say, about the status. I mean, she is a state senator that is tasked with, you know, representing a district.

Tyler Axness 02:02

We don't need to go into all the details here of, you know, that night that's been all over the place, but that the politics of it comes in because of the majority and what they are, what narrow it is.

Tyler Axness 02:14

I mean, when you have to represent, so I'm curious when there's like an ethics investigation that's going on, do you represent in those scenarios too? Or is it just in a courtroom? How does that work on just a criminal defense side? Because you have the politics and then you got the legal side, right?

Dane DeKrey 02:31

Right. The only time that we get involved with the politics side is when the two intersect. And so in the ethics investigation that you just mentioned, there may be questions at that investigation that would require the senator, our client, to have to make statements that could be damaging to her criminal case.

Dane DeKrey 02:53

And so we will be involved at any hearing where we think there's an intersection of the criminal aspect, because that is what she hired us for. And that is what our job is about. And so, as Bruce said, that's the reluctant cross section of politics and law. We would prefer to just be dealing in Becker County and representing her like any other of our clients. But because of the dimension, we will have to spend a little time in St. Paul helping her navigate the ethics investigation.

Tyler Axness 03:23

Aside from just this story, and we can take it national, I mean, Donald Trump's on trial every day. He's a high profile, obviously he's a former president. We talk about Ray Holmberg who's a state senator here.

Tyler Axness 03:33

You can take other celebrities that are just involved in politics. So when we're just talking about the celebrity, the status that people just wanna talk about it. When I think about this coming to a potential trial, what you wanna get a jury, how much of an impact does what we do to these shows impact the ability to find an impartial jury?

Tyler Axness 03:51

I mean, is it as robust as, are we just egotistical in media thinking that, hey, we have all this sway in all these different capacities, or does it have a real impact?

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 03:59

It does have a real impact because when a jury is picked, both sides, the prosecution and the defense, as well as the judge, are inquiring of the veneer, the panel of prospective jurors, what they know about the case, what they know about the defendant, and that tends to cause more good prospective jurors, by good I mean, good from the perspective of both the prosecution and the defense from not being seated on the sworn jury.

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 04:32

It means it takes much longer to get a jury and it can mean it is impossible to seat a truly fair jury, that there are people on that jury who have misrepresented their biases and it can't be sussed out.

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 04:48

So we understand the media's motivation, but it is a problem from the perspective of the criminal justice system.

Tyler Axness 04:57

35270 is how you can get your questions answered if in fact You know a friend or if you are that individual that says hey look I need some criminal defense advice I need some representation.

Tyler Axness 05:08

These are the the two to do just that This isn't necessarily a question that comes in for you to but I'm gonna direct it at you, too We just heard in the cave to a news update about a North Dakota situation When it comes to Cass County Sheriff Jesse Johnner He was called from a landowner suspicious activity as was reported and now there's questions about the status of Immigration are these individuals here legally. And this is a comment that came in and response to that and I want to get your take On it as somebody that would represent potentially a client Talking about I think there's a suspicious car just a couple houses down from me. There's no evidence just suspicious to me that there's anything wrong Is that enough for law and authorities to go and hassle them not here not in the USA?

Tyler Axness 05:54

I believe so when it comes to this situation, where a neighbor is kind of a weird out to call the cops on that person? What did what's your guys's opinion legally and criminal defense like on this?

Dane DeKrey 06:06

Well, if that person ends up actually calling the police, that's usually what we call an anonymous tip by an anonymous informant. And the law says that standing alone is not enough for the police to go investigate or intervene.

Dane DeKrey 06:23

And you can imagine why, because you could weaponize that pretty quickly and start Gladys Kravitzing your neighbors whenever you didn't like what they were doing. But if the police then are able to take that tip and then go substantiate it in some way to give more credence to the claim that there is something suspicious, then that may give rise to them to begin a criminal investigation.

Dane DeKrey 06:46

But from what you said, that seems pretty threadbare. And I appreciate the comments understanding that just because it's suspicious to me, does not make it suspicious to thee or objectively. And so I would urge caution to begin to look upon your neighbor suspiciously for those reasons, because that's a very slippery slope and usually ends up in places that we don't like.

Tyler Axness 07:14

When it comes to the immigration status, it's been injected into this, right? And when it comes to jurisdictions, you have a Cass County sheriff, which I don't fault Jesse John for going and taking the call, right?

Tyler Axness 07:25

I mean, I think he's doing his job. That's my opinion. This adds a whole other level of, you know, intrigue to it when it comes to, okay, now you gotta involve the federal jurisdiction. I'm not sure where the question lies for you as criminal defense attorneys here.

Tyler Axness 07:40

The proper channels is something I'm sure you watch closely though, right? So let's say, and it hasn't happened, but somebody that doesn't have jurisdiction goes and tries to get a warrant or do whatever it might.

Tyler Axness 07:51

Does that muddy the waters quite a bit when it's a federal versus a county versus a state? Where do you guys come in on that? Make sure that the process is done correctly.

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 08:00

Well, Dane can speak more to this because he does a lot more federal work, but what I will say is many federal cases, if not most, begin with a state or a municipal law enforcement officer investigating.

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 08:12

We have a federal trial coming up and there is very likely going to be a state investigator who will be one of the government's main witnesses. So it's not surprising if there's a possible immigration issue that the investigation starts with a state or a city law enforcement officer.

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 08:30

Very good.

Tyler Axness 08:31

that clarified that for me. If you got questions, comments, send them in. We take any and all at 35270. You can also call us at 237-5948. A couple of things I want to ask you guys about statute of limitations.

Tyler Axness 08:44

What are they good for? Why do we have them? Is two years of national average or North Dakota? I'll get to that. Also, you guys just mentioned trial prep. You guys have been busy. I know you're going to be busy.

Tyler Axness 08:56

All right, let me talk about that when we come back. It's Law talk rings from to create our in studio more next law talk underway here. We do this every first Wednesday of the month. And once you look at the calendar, it is May 1st and it happens to be on a Wednesday.

Tyler Axness 09:12

That means Bruce rings from junior and day into career in studio 35270 is the adventure RV text club to text in your questions. Statute of limitations is something that is often brought up and I've seen it a couple of times here just recently when it comes to scandals.

Tyler Axness 09:30

The intersection of alleged crime and politics again. But the reason I bring this up is I keep hearing the two year statute of limitations has or is about to eclipse when it comes to potential crimes committed.

Tyler Axness 09:47

And we don't even need to necessarily go into the details of what alleged crimes were there. But two years keeps getting brought up on North Dakota side. Is two years a national average? Does it depend on the type of crime?

Tyler Axness 09:59

Why two years? And why is it important for statute of limitations? Period, I guess.

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 10:05

So I don't know whether two years is a national average. I think most of the statutes of limitations in Minnesota are three years for misdemeanors, seven years for most felonies, and then nine years for sex assaults, actually nine years from the date of report.

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 10:22

So if a 10 -year -old alleges that he or she were assaulted then and then doesn't report it until they're 25, law enforcement prosecution would have nine years from that point. And then with murders, there is no statute of limitations.

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 10:38

The policy purpose, why do we have statute of limitations? Because as a case gets older, memories fade, it becomes harder for defendants to build a defense because witnesses go away, and it's for efficiency of the criminal justice system.

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 10:54

The government, and I think it's justifiable, has decided that more serious cases deserve a longer statute of limitations, and in the most serious cases, murder, there is no statute of limitations, which is why now we're seeing, with a lot of DNA stuff, 50 -year -old murders getting charged out.

Tyler Axness 11:11

Anything to add on that one, Dane? I mean, a great addition to it, as fact, is that the memories don't serve as well. And I mean, there's a reason there to make sure that there's some equitable justice if there needs to be served there.

Dane DeKrey 11:24

Yeah, it's a policy decision in a lot of ways. Different states have different numbers. Some keep them open longer, some don't. Also with recent things like in the Me Too movement, there was a reevaluation of those types of statute of limitations.

Dane DeKrey 11:39

The Harvey Weinstein trial, there's just reversal in that case. But before those cases kind of came to the limelight, there was more definite shorter statute of limitations. And now many state legislatures are either making them unlimited, like murder, or much longer.

Dane DeKrey 11:59

And so public pressure can change that dynamic as well.

Tyler Axness 12:02

You know I think one thing that we get in every month about this is about DUI laws and I think it was just not long ago that North Dakota had changed in that kind of look back period. If you have a violation within is it seven years or whatever it is now then that's going to be another striking additional punishment for you.

Tyler Axness 12:19

Is that kind of in along the same terms or is that something entirely different? When we have that look back versus a statute of limitations.

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 12:27

I think I think it is something different because it basically just decides what you know if you're having a DWI if you get a DWI today how serious should we regard it if you've had three DWIs within the last seven years whereas if you had five DWIs back in the 80s and you have a new one now you know you've your pattern of behavior isn't as egregious as it used to be. Interestingly though I've represented people who are charged with a misdemeanor DUI but they had a bunch of DUIs 40 years ago and the Department of Public Safety or the DMV revokes their license for two, four, six years because the look back period on the license revocation is forever.

Tyler Axness 13:10

Somebody's getting in some questions here. One, I'm gonna preface that, or come back after the break here, because this is about child and paternity and all that. But this one comes in, cannot statute of limitations be extended in certain circumstances, for example, with juveniles?

Tyler Axness 13:26

Any truth to what this texter says? When it comes to juveniles, can you statute of limitations be extended?

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 13:32

Well, that's kind of what I talked about. It's a complicated idea. Again, if a 10 -year -old alleges that they were molested but they don't report it until they're 25, even though in Minnesota there's a nine -year statute of limitations on sexual assault cases, it gets extended.

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 13:47

You can't retroactively extend it because in the United States we have what's called a – there are no ex post facto laws. You can't say, oh, we don't like what you did, but it's not against the law, so we're going to make it against the law now and you're going to go to jail.

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 14:02

Very good.

Tyler Axness 14:03

More questions coming in, I tell you what we're gonna do is get you caught up with some KF Joe news. Dane, you brought up Harvey Weinstein and the reversal. I wanna get your guys' take on how and why that happened as well, and there was something that we left on the table last time, last month when you guys were in, when it comes to evidence through electronics, through cell phones.

Tyler Axness 14:21

We didn't conclude on that, so I wanna bring that back up and plus you guys have been so dang busy and a trial prep, we'll get back to that in just a moment. During the conversation, three, five, two, seven, zero, I see the establishing paternity in North Dakota.

Tyler Axness 14:34

We'll get their take on some of that if they have any thoughts on that text that came in plus anything else. Call us, two, three, seven, five, nine, four, eight. It is Law Talk right here on KFGO.

Tyler Axness 14:45

We're back to Law Talk here on KF G .O. Bruce Springstrom, Jr., Dan DeKrey are the two guests in studio taking all of your questions. We'll get the details if you need to further question their expertise and actually get some representation but I'm gonna throw this one out to you guys and I know that there's all different levels of a lawyer, attorney, I mean same with a doctor here but they sent in the question so I wanna ask it.

Tyler Axness 15:10

Trying to establish paternity in North Dakota, a child will be, the child's gonna be forced to it. The father was incarcerated for almost two years and would like to establish paternity, not custody, as he knows he is not ready for that until he gets some things done for himself.

Tyler Axness 15:28

The mother has her own issues and child is not with her either. The grandparents had, have been raising her. What should he do? Do you have any advice? Bruce.

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 15:39

Well, it's a family law question, and so this person needs a family law attorney, and unfortunately probably also needs a criminal defense attorney, because establishing paternity, there's a logical path and set of motions that can be made, but then you also need someone to act as the intercessor between the inmate and the warden in the Department of Corrections.

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 16:03

So, we can't answer that question, they've got to start with the family law attorney first. Very good.

Dane DeKrey 16:09

But I would commend that person for trying to establish it. That's good for him.

Tyler Axness 16:14

Uh, you brought up the Harvey Weinstein situation, Dane, and that reversal, and it had a lot of people saying, what? What led to this reversal, as far as where things are now? Because it seems like, hey, this seemed like a pretty clear -cut case, but now here we are reversing things.

Tyler Axness 16:32

What happened?

Dane DeKrey 16:34

Well, it was really the rules of evidence, and by that I mean when he was charged, there were only two actual counts in his charge, and so two women had actual allegations for him to be either guilty or not guilty of.

Dane DeKrey 16:50

But the prosecution, I think feeling pressure from the Me Too movement and wanting to give these victims a voice, let multiple, I don't know if it was 50, 100, lots of other women who didn't have actual formal charges against Harvey Weinstein, testify at the trial.

Dane DeKrey 17:08

And so when he was found guilty, his lawyers appealed it and basically said, you should only be allowed to try and have people testify who actually have charges against you and not all these other unnamed or uncharged victims.

Dane DeKrey 17:23

And that created such an imbalance and unfairness that it was not a fair trial for Harvey Weinstein.

Tyler Axness 17:31

This can be retried though. Is that my understanding because you know, I mean this seems like it was a misstep It was an aggressive approach perhaps as you're saying that part of the times there because that I mean that the me too movement was Everywhere right or wrong in people's opinions But you know the aggressive approach led to this reversal.

Tyler Axness 17:49

Can it be retried?

Dane DeKrey 17:50

Yes, and that is what I imagine prosecutors are deciding right now. I will say that's a very difficult and tall task one to get victims to come back out and do that again. I think that was very difficult for them for the re -trauma, but also just the logistics and timeline and amount of money that it would take when, I don't know if you've heard, but there are some other very important cases that are going on in Manhattan courtrooms right now.

Dane DeKrey 18:15

So.

Tyler Axness 18:16

watching it at the top of the hour, it seems like, every day for the last three weeks. Bruce, maybe I'll throw this question your way, because you imagine that's going to be in the trial prep, right, for the, okay, this is what we're going to allow, this is what we're going to pursue.

Tyler Axness 18:29

You are, I assume, and you can walk me through the process here, because I know you're busy with it, preparing for what the prosecution might be bringing. What are you guys doing when you're preparing for a variety of trials, and what are you expecting the client, if anything, during that time, during trial prep?

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 18:45

What we're expecting from a client depends on the case. Some of our clients are rather detached from defense, not because they don't care about the case, but because given the nature of the accusation, they may not have a lot to contribute.

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 18:58

And sometimes we've represented people who are lower functioning, and they're not able to contribute that much, but we do try to spend as much time with them as we can. Trial preparation is an extraordinarily laborious and time -consuming process.

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 19:11

We spend a lot of time building out, helping us understand what the theory of the case is, all of the witnesses that have to be cross -examined, all of the witnesses we may call their direct examinations, preparing for what the cross -examination of the prosecutor may be, there are closing arguments, there are various motions.

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 19:29

And we do a lot of prep in advance of that, sort of running ideas by what we call focus groups. We actually do a kind of like a mock trial before, and it's something that is very rare in criminal defense firms, more popular in larger plaintiffs firms in bigger cities, but we do that to give us a better read on what actual citizens, how they will perceive the evidence and the burden of proof and so on.

Tyler Axness 19:53

When you have a variety of trials, how do you work with getting them scheduled out so that you guys are able to be at every client's trial that you're a part of? I mean, let's say, for example, you guys are in five trials at any given moment.

Tyler Axness 20:05

I mean, do you get much say when it comes to the judge scheduling things out? How does that really?

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 20:10

We get some say when it comes to that. The problem is we have trials scheduled in federal court, in state court, and in two different states. So it's not as though there's a unified scheduling system across the country.

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 20:23

Being that we are in private practice, it is easier because we have far fewer cases. We only have about 50 cases total with all three lawyers. When I was a public defender many years ago, I had 100 cases.

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 20:35

I literally tried three cases in a week once, about 12 years ago. And it's tough on the clients. It's certainly tough on the defense attorneys. But we try to manage everything and we tend to be pretty successful in doing that.

Tyler Axness 20:48

I don't know how to ask this in a correct way. So I'm just saying, do you ever just say, nope, I don't want this client? Like, absolutely not. I mean, does that happen or is it very uncommon that somebody gets rejected to be a client?

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 21:01

It's an extraordinarily rare situation where we reject the client. We do not reject clients because of how odious the charges are. That is not something that we do. We're dyed in the wool, criminal defense attorneys, the government's gonna bring this charge.

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 21:15

We are always representing not just the client but the Constitution as well. Sometimes the client is really difficult to deal with. If they are not prepared to work with us in defending the case, we reserve the right to turn that case down.

Dane DeKrey 21:31

or if we are fundamentally too busy that we can't give it the attention and the quality that we have come to expect of ourselves. We may say to them you should have this other law firm handle it, but that's important to reiterate.

Dane DeKrey 21:46

It is never the charge that makes us decide one way or another. It is usually the client or the amount of work the firm has.

Tyler Axness 21:56

There's a client that's sitting in Manhattan that you referred to early. I'm not gonna pull you guys in on this unless you absolutely want to because he seems very difficult as a former president when we talk about impartial juries because it's been talked about around the globe.

Tyler Axness 22:09

And I mean, when you have a judge saying, stop talking about this, and then going out and seemingly violating those orders, how do you handle that as somebody who's supposed to represent that client?

Dane DeKrey 22:20

If I knew that answer, I mean, Bruce and I maybe would have another high profile client. But what I'll say about it is, is a very famous trial lawyer in Florida named David Oscar Marcus. And he is arguably maybe the best living criminal defense lawyer today.

Dane DeKrey 22:40

And he actually had an interview with the president on whether or not he wanted to be his lawyer. And from what I understand, the way he tells it, they offered him the job. And it could have been obviously the most high of all the high profile cases he's done to be the most high profile case of his life.

Dane DeKrey 22:56

And he's not his lawyer. And he doesn't elaborate exactly as to why, but the subtext is, there's another famous lawyer that Bruce can talk about. And his name is Alfred Bennett Williams. Oh, Edward Bennett Williams, yeah.

Dane DeKrey 23:12

And Edward Bennett Williams says, I want a client who I am like the doctor going to surgery. You accept that you will be having surgery. I will be putting you under and I will wake you up when the case is done.

Dane DeKrey 23:26

And this gentleman from Florida is more like that. And I think that is why he just knew it would be an impossible task.

Tyler Axness 23:35

When it comes to, let's say, all right, where do you give it a shot? All right, I wanna see if I can't rein you in. I'm a professional, I'm gonna get you, you know, the best damn representation I can if you just listen to me and then all of a sudden the trial starts and you ain't listening.

Tyler Axness 23:49

Is there anything that prohibits you as a defense attorney that's been hired by that client from walking away from that or is it fully within your grasp to say, I'm outta here, you're not listening to me?

Tyler Axness 23:59

I'm curious what your response is to that.

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 24:02

Well, it depends on the venue. In Minnesota, an attorney can withdraw from a case, a criminal case for what is called personal reasons. That is to say they don't have to justify it. From an ethical perspective, if I cannot get my client on board with what I well and truly believe is the best defense, if they are going to make a choice that is contrary to everything I believe about defending the case, I'm going to withdraw.

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 24:30

I have never done that in my career, but I reserve the right to do it. I've dealt with some extraordinarily difficult clients, but it's part of my responsibility to bear that burden.

Dane DeKrey 24:43

Well, you have to understand that these, your clients, you cannot be a lawyer who cuts the moment things get difficult. I pride myself in federal court, Bruce in state court, that no matter how difficult the person is, I am going to try to find a way to find common ground, to have the hard conversations so that I can help them even if they don't realize it, aren't happy with it and maybe aren't helping themselves because it's very easy to cut and run on a client.

Dane DeKrey 25:16

It is much more difficult to stick it through and try to do justice for them even when they aren't doing it for themselves.

Tyler Axness 25:23

Fascinating stuff guys. Tyler, a question for the lawyers. Will it state on your criminal record if your firearm privileges are revoked?

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 25:34

Well, what is a criminal record is kind of an open question. So you can look at the Minnesota court information system and pull up a history of cases. You can do the same thing in North Dakota. There is no flag on there that indicates whether your firearm privileges are revoked.

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 25:50

If you have a question, you're going to have to consult with an attorney. And do it before, not after.

Dane DeKrey 25:57

What happened? This is it.

Tyler Axness 25:58

That seems like a common thing like do it do it ahead of time boys and girls

Dane DeKrey 26:02

Well, this one, especially because up here we are, you know, we are hunters. We are all these things, but there is no real ambiguity in these statutes. If you cannot have a gun and you have one, it's pretty cut and dry.

Dane DeKrey 26:15

And then you're.

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 26:15

going to need a criminal defense attorney for something new.

Tyler Axness 26:17

And then guess what we're gonna tell him how they can get in contact with you guys when they come back I gotta get that final weather update of too tall Tom We got about 10 minutes left here of after he's live We got time to squeeze in another question or two if you have them at three five 270 more with Bruce rings from jr.

Tyler Axness 26:33

And in the cray next well you just heard it's law talk Right here and after he's live criminal defense attorneys dandy cray Bruce rings from jr. Guys I get so much positive feedback from from this hour that we've been doing I think this is our third time The the wisdom that you guys bring and just they all are on down -to -earth approach.

Tyler Axness 26:51

Thank you for doing it Thank you for choosing after his life to do that But sometimes the questions that come in are more detail oriented I mean, it's like they need to reach out to you guys not just get it answered on the show.

Tyler Axness 27:02

Where do they go Bruce?

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 27:05

Well, they can certainly go online, ringstromdecray .com, ringstromdecray .com, or you can give us a call at 218 -284 -0484, 218 -284 -0484, and we'll talk to anyone if you've got a criminal law related question, if you have a civil rights related question, but also if you're looking for an attorney who, you know, of a specialty that is not ours, you're welcome to call and we will do our very best to steer you in the right direction.

Tyler Axness 27:34

I imagine you guys get a lot of calls about a variety of things. I mean, we had that text that came in about it, you know, a paternity and you have a family law and while there might be a criminal aspect to it.

Tyler Axness 27:44

So I mean, people can get referred to them as because that's, I think, got to be the scariest thing aside of the second scariest. One is, okay, I'm in trouble. Number two is where do I turn? And you know, if it's criminal defense or if it's whatever, it's nice to have a friendly voice on the other end of the phone call because I feel like I'm in trouble now.

Tyler Axness 28:01

And you guys are the place to go for that. We have just a little bit of time. There was a couple of situations that we didn't get to wrap up last time. One was about race statistics. I got a lot of phone calls on that.

Tyler Axness 28:14

Let's save that for next month because we cannot get that in in three minutes. But we also talked, I think in our first episode, about the crumbly, the parents that, you know, had a son that went into the school shooting.

Tyler Axness 28:28

They just now were sentenced, I think within this last month, to 10 to 15 years in prison. I remember us talking about this being a precedent. I'm curious your reaction to the sentencing of 10 to 15 years for the parents and what I think might be the first time really being held accountable for what their son did at a school shooting.

Tyler Axness 28:46

Bruce, any thoughts on that?

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 28:47

Well, as a private citizen and not as a lawyer, I wonder whether that amount of punishment is appropriate. Certainly, I did not lose a child in that shooting, but I can only imagine that there's a desire for justice and that's where that sentence came from.

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 29:04

On the other hand, I continue to believe that this is a slippery slope, that when we are holding people criminally accountable for the behavior of others, even if they are their own children, we could find this being extended to other situations far less horrifying than school shootings.

Tyler Axness 29:24

Maybe the thing you want to add, this, that, and otherwise...

Dane DeKrey 29:28

I hope it's the exception and not the rule. I think that certain circumstances may warrant these sort of outlier cases, but I hope they don't swallow the rule.

Tyler Axness 29:39

Um, guys, I mean, there's other messages coming in here about the statute of limitations again, you know, about being changed. You got one thing you want to add to this.

Dane DeKrey 29:47

Well, you had mentioned earlier, talk about the phone about the data. Yeah. And that's one thing we should talk about next, because the Supreme Court in front of it right now, there is a petition to try to answer this question about compelled password usage, whether or not we talked about, you know, if you type it in versus your face versus your fingerprint and it is bubbling up all across the country.

Dane DeKrey 30:11

Like I said, there are states on either side of it. There are all sorts of law professors who are interested. And the Supreme Court hasn't taken up a Fourth Amendment case, which is what this would be under unreasonable surges and seizures in many years.

Dane DeKrey 30:25

Yeah. And so this court is new court has not ever taken it up. And every once in a while in the Supreme Court, there's some odd bedfellow cases where you don't know where they're going to land on the big ones.

Dane DeKrey 30:36

We kind of know or we think we know. But every once in a while in cases like this, you get some weird pairings. And so I hope for nothing else to see how that shakes out if they take this case up.

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 30:48

And I'm prepared to take a strong position on this. I think they should rule that this is protected by the Fifth Amendment. This is the content of someone's mind. We're litigating this in a case right now.

Bruce Ringstrom Jr 30:59

We just filed a motion to get the contents of a phone excluded because our client was compelled by order of a court to give up the contents of his mind to get in there. So our hope is that these strange bell bedfellas do come together and it's ruled unconstitutional.

Tyler Axness 31:15

fellas professionally, that is a tease that people have to hang on to for a month about coming back to that, and maybe we'll have a decision by then as far as where things are when it comes to your cell phone, because it's a whole new thing.

Tyler Axness 31:26

I imagine that there's other times where, if I don't know, I've only got about 30 seconds. Technology got ahead of what the lies, and this seems to be the case right now, right?

Dane DeKrey 31:36

That's what always happens and requires the Supreme Court to revisit its old precedent. We did it in 2016 in a case called Carpenter about cell phones. This is the next frontier of what does your privacy mean in the digital age?

Tyler Axness 31:49

Fellas we're out of time this month. Let's do this again next month. All right, very good I was a pleasure rings from the cray a lie You can check them out online that if you need any advice or you need representation These are the guys you want to on your side.

Tyler Axness 32:01

This is it for me today. I'm Tyler access your host You're on after his live. I'll be back for more the show tomorrow to let me drive safely. You take care of yourself